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rtucken Posts: 7
6/8/2016
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Did I miss a change note about building logistics being tied to levels now rather then just the amount of structures you have? Current system pretty much destroys any interest I had in the game.
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Baston Posts: 40
6/9/2016
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Personally I think that this change is a good thing, at least its idea.
For example people that focus on Civilian Services, they have no need of a lvl 10 building because they can only sell it to one place. Thus it may be advantageous for them
However, there is indeed two problems :
- The limit is way too low. I suppose that the HQ lvl increase the building limit by 5 or 10, in this case a lvl 10 HQ means only 5 to 10 lvl 10 buildings, that's ridiculously low. It should be increased by at least 3 folds, or even 5 as it was originally.
- The second problem is for example : two lvl 5 building or one lvl 10 cost both 10 points in logistic. However two lvl 5 produce 2*22*X = 44*X, and a lvl 10 is 120*X. So the logistic shouldn't really be calculated on the buidling lvl, but on the output.
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Zandar Posts: 4
6/9/2016
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That is not a problem, the game has always emphasized higher levels over more buildings/units. But I agree, more buildings are going to be needed. To me it seems the devs are over estimating the number of players that this game is going to attract, and building systems designed to work with far denser corporation groupings. The game bills itself as "loosely" co-operative, but right now to achieve anything outside of Sol requires a very dedicated, very united and reasonably large team.
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Doctor Dread Administrator Posts: 1478
6/9/2016
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It's a little early in this games lifetime to be using the "I hate this change so much I won't play anymore" card =)
Yes the logistics is working by the level of the building now and not the number of structures, Military units are working in a similar way. Going by a building count makes adding another building at level one potentially devastating to the rest of your economy until it gets to a higher level. Having a level 10 building count as much as a level 1 considering one makes 100x the production is a good argument. Going by level makes a lot more sense. Going by production works also but it would take away from the "higher level structures are more efficient that many smaller structures" mechanic. The purpose of the logistics was to soft cap a corporations maximum size. We can't allow a single corp to eventually have 1,200 structures and owning every planet in a solar system. It also needs to be low enough to make it increasingly difficult to produce a wide variety of goods that combine to the higher tier products. You should be able to get into a couple of them solo, but not several easily. That's where contracting with others comes in.
Military goes by level of the unit for GROUND UNITS only, ships go by their size stat regardless of level. For example a battleship is 4 logistics regardless of its level. Capital ships damage ratings vs. ground was upped a lot this last update also.
As for going outside of Sol System. I plan to make every a "Paid" account in a week or so and you can relocate to the other systems if you like. The outer systems should grow in time. There is an event for City ruler ship in place(!). When a city is formed outside of sol there will be an election within the day for it.
edited by DrDread on 6/9/2016
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rtucken Posts: 7
6/9/2016
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Doctor Dread wrote:
It's a little early in this games lifetime to be using the "I hate this change so much I won't play anymore" card =)
Yes the logistics is working by the level of the building now and not the number of structures, Military units are working in a similar way. Going by a building count makes adding another building at level one potentially devastating to the rest of your economy until it gets to a higher level. Having a level 10 building count as much as a level 1 considering one makes 100x the production is a good argument. Going by level makes a lot more sense. Going by production works also but it would take away from the "higher level structures are more efficient that many smaller structures" mechanic. The purpose of the logistics was to soft cap a corporations maximum size. We can't allow a single corp to eventually have 1,200 structures and owning every planet in a solar system. It also needs to be low enough to make it increasingly difficult to produce a wide variety of goods that combine to the higher tier products. You should be able to get into a couple of them solo, but not several easily. That's where contracting with others comes in.
Military goes by level of the unit for GROUND UNITS only, ships go by their size stat regardless of level. For example a battleship is 4 logistics regardless of its level. Capital ships damage ratings vs. ground was upped a lot this last update also.
As for going outside of Sol System. I plan to make every a "Paid" account in a week or so and you can relocate to the other systems if you like. The outer systems should grow in time. There is an event for City ruler ship in place(!). When a city is formed outside of sol there will be an election within the day for it.
edited by DrDread on 6/9/2016
But as evidenced by the last alpha, currently there is little point moving outside the system, it is simply a net loss in terms of income. The amount of effort and players required to reliably supply even a single city is right now out of the reach of the player base. The Core Group alliance is going to give it a go, but even with our four players dedicated to it I doubt we will be able to grow a city to the point that it makes a return on investment.
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Doctor Dread Administrator Posts: 1478
6/9/2016
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Last Alpha there were some serious problems with the games configuration. The demand rises 1 point every 10 turns instead of every 2 turns now and the population of planets was rising and falling 100x faster than it was supposed to. Combined that made the outer cities crash within days.
What is supposed to happen is that you will eventually sell down every cities demand for every product down to where it's becoming almost not profitable to sell anymore so you look farther and farther out into the newer cities where the demand can actually go up to 1000. With only a handful of players it is difficult to oversupply 200 big cities in the Sol System. Even though it caps at around 150 demand its still worth it stay there and pretty much get 150 all the time as you rotate products.
I'm looking for a way to make the number of cities much smaller and somehow scale up when more players are in Sol. I might cut the number of cities in half and then scale the POPULATIONS to the number of players in Sol. If the population of a city is low then the volume for the product will be very small which causes the price to drop very quickly when you start selling in mass. A small number of players should be able to oversupply the cities very quickly. As more players base their HQs in sol, the population "Defaults" will go up to match.
Also, this time around, after I turn on paid accounts, you can be voted in as ruler of a city outside of Sol. When more events start coming in it should be a lot more desirable to relocate out of Sol. That's why we test with new settings! =)
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rtucken Posts: 7
6/9/2016
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What I found was that once you account for cash flow issues from transport it was rarely worth selling items off planet. Combined with the amount of micro mamangement needed to monitor the demand for multiple products in multiple cities, chasing some elusive "max" profit is just a hassle.
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Doctor Dread Administrator Posts: 1478
6/10/2016
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I agree with you but its because there's a small number of players with a huge set of large cities to sell to right now. It's something I need to scale to the player base.
Shipping to sell products to another planet is expensive, even transporting to another city is cost/hassle but it's all a matter of increasing demand. When you start selling locally more and more, the demand drops and doesn't come up very fast at all. At a certain point it will be far more worthwhile to send a transport to the next city. EVENTUALLY you and the other 5 people selling the same kind of stuff you are will produce more then the entire planet needs and all the prices will become lower and lower. If the stuff you are selling is all at 50 demand and the same stuff is at 700 demand on the next planet. I'm pretty sure you will start selling off world.
With a small game with small number of people AND with so many big cities you aren't going to drop the prices of your product in every city hard enough to warrant going to another planet in the 2-3 weeks you're going to be playing. If I reduce the city count, and resource count with it, and/or make the populations scale to the player base, then you will start to run out of profitable demand cities pretty quickly
If tomorrow I made every planet in Sol only have only 3 small cities, I guarantee the situation will be dramatically different. Obviously that would be the other extreme. I need to incorporate a sliding scale based on how many players are there =)
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