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Phemanaught Posts: 5
8/22/2016
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I have a surplus of basic metal now, because my trucks cannot sell enough, there is no explanation for this, and it cannot be tracked how much is not selling and why.
Also the metal mines need to state how much they can sell compared to how much they can produce.
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Vulpex Posts: 390
8/22/2016
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Actually the mines do state how much they sell. If you look at any mine and go to the buy/sell screen the very first set of information which you get in the tab is the B/S power, expressed in units. That's how much per turn a facility can sell.
You also have to take into account how much a given location can buy of a product (its demand/turn)
And finally you can check exactly how much stuff you are selling per turn by going to the corporate tab -> accounting and there select detail type buy/sell you will get a detailed view of your latest transactions.
Hope that all can help you trade better.
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Doctor Dread Administrator Posts: 1478
8/22/2016
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Phemanaught wrote:
I have a surplus of basic metal now, because my trucks cannot sell enough, there is no explanation for this, and it cannot be tracked how much is not selling and why.
Also the metal mines need to state how much they can sell compared to how much they can produce.
Cities have a certain "volume" that they can accept in a single turn this is the only thing that keeps you from selling everything in one turn. If you go to the Viewscreen tab then go to the Demand tab and drill down to the product you are selling at that city you can see how much it sells for an also the "volume" for that product. If you are selling so much that you are exceeding the volume then you are probably dropping the price of that product very low. You need to sell elsewhere
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Phemanaught Posts: 5
8/23/2016
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Hmm... Uh It would be nice if it was a little clearer information, I see what you are saying but instead of numbers maybe a bar graph,
Also when looking at my assets could you put in a drop down that will let me seperate every thing, so I can just show up transports, mines, instead of having to scroll down,
Lastly I don't see a point in having that "Return to assets" button on the top of the page's seeing you can use the asset button on the main menu, seems like a waist of space.
This is my problem I am clearly making negative money, yet it is adding, I lost over 1 million dollars in 4 turns even though I was only running -10,000 dollars,
AND NOW 1 TURN LATER IT SAYS I SHOULD HAVE LOST 50,000 BUT I GAINED IT. xD now I have lost millions due to this in a few goes, I had over 40 million at one stage and out of no where it vanished.
Now that I have made +20,000 this turn, it has made it a negative instead of addition.
The cap on the sell amounts is extremely low, 1000 units is too little it should be around 12,000 IMO.
If your going to have it go into the minus and not have a -, then can you change the colour to red?
edited by Phemanaught on 8/23/2016
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Doctor Dread Administrator Posts: 1478
8/23/2016
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You are making more metals then you can sell =) You have sold down the price of metals across the entire planet almost. Also if you produce more than 1000 a turn you start to overcrowd the resource and it starts giving you and everyone there a penalty to production cost.. This is probably why it was costing you so much. If you run 2 basic metal factories at level 10 on a 16 value resource its going to be something like 3,200 a turn with a 220% penalty to cost! You have to produce at a different basic metal resource once you approach 1000 a turn in one place. There are other people that might be mining that resource also.
You are sitting on over 200k basic metals. It would be worth it for you to take a freighter and sold to another planet with a big city and higher price. You can even ship to the other systems where the prices might be 300-400 right now.
its good that you stopped production on your factories. your profit is back into the green. You can turn them on but set them at a lower percentage,
On the website you can read about all this under Guide >> Production.
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Shooer Posts: 22
8/23/2016
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Adding a negative to a negative is adding...
Putting numbers in () is a way of displaying negative numbers in various systems.
Also there is a drop down there that tells you what each production facility is costing you and what each unit that is selling is making you. It's labeled Detail Type.
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Phemanaught Posts: 5
8/23/2016
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Sorry that is being short sighted on the end game, its only been this many turns, what happens when I decide to do this every resource?
I see where you are coming from, but the amount I am producing isn't much when you consider me playing for 3 years,
Also by not stating the correct amount currently in holdings by not displaying "-" or showing the number in red, is miss leading...
Your bank does not do that with your bank account so why do it here?
What happens when I saturate every market on this planet?
if getting a single level 10 mine farm or any thing is enough to for fill a quota then you will reach end game very quickly?
Also it is not adding 2 negatives, It is displaying the correct balance.
Why is there a -227% to production
If I have 2 iphone factory's then I make double the amount of iphones.
but in your world If i have 2 iphone factory I make minus the amount of iphones?
edited by Phemanaught on 8/23/2016
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Vulpex Posts: 390
8/23/2016
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The penalty only applies to the resources which are extracted - not to the stuff you produce.
Thus if you had two huge factories making smartphones - no problem. No penalties.
However, if you were here on earth trying to have massive oil rigs trying to extract the very last drop of oil out of a deposit - yeah the cost of extraction goes up.
End game is really forgetting about extraction and focussing on production.
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Phemanaught Posts: 5
8/23/2016
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How does that make sense?
IF you have a gold mine in your back yard that goes straight down,
then your neighbour builds a gold mine in his back yard going straight down,
How does his mine in any way affect your mine's production?
Let me explain this in the real world,
Here in Australia more mines mean high production, the mines then rely on demand to sell their product.
more mines don't drive down production, they drive down demand.
What this system is doing is over taxing.
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Vulpex Posts: 390
8/24/2016
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It makes sense because you are first going to mine the areas which are easier to mine. Then as you open up more mines, you either have to go deeper (more expensive) or work with ores that are not as rich (more expensive) or... etc
In this game more mines ALSO means more production - but at a cost that's all just like in the real world.
(the model is not perfectly accurate, but overall it makes sense)
It's actually important to see the impact that this has within the game.
What is more valuable - a site with 18 resource value and 3 mines or a site with 16 resource value and no mines?
It also allows for interesting economic warfare - I can crash your mines if I build mine next to yours, but at a cost.
And it also encourages you to move to develop higher level commodities. That is a good thing too.
A game were all you do is plop mines make them big and make megabucks... well that's kinda boring.
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Salbazier Posts: 3
8/24/2016
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Game mechanic doesn't necessarily model realities to perfection. Sure, one gold mine doesn't necessarily affect neighboring mine's production. But in real world, there would be a limited places you can dig mine for withing a certain region. If all gold-bearing sites has already been bought, than you have no choice but go elsewhere. In this game, instead of having a hard cap where if your competitors exploit too much of the resource, there's no share for you, you got a soft cap where corps are penalized for overcrowding a site. It affect everybody equally probably for the sake of balance, so that's neither the newer nor the older corp got more advantages.
As for late-game, that's what the other planets/systems/sectors for?
By the way, Phemanaught, your screenshot was too wide it stretch my screen. Put it inside spoilers or something.
edited by Salbazier on 8/24/2016
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Doctor Dread Administrator Posts: 1478
8/24/2016
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I think the other players have answered for me already =)
This is a game and its not going to be 100% realistic, games are supposed to have fun strategic mechanics and not necessarily be realistic simulations, which in general are pretty boring.
The overcrowding ONLY effects resources. It's what forces you from simply building more and selling more. You (and everyone else there) eventually hit a problem with resource overcrowding, and are forced to mine in other places as well. You will also hit a problem when you sell so much that the prices begins to drop everywhere for your product and are forced to sell to more cities , even offworld. These mechanics is what prevents you from exponentially becoming more and more powerful. As you produce and sell more and more metals you will meet more and more resistance from the game mechanics. there is no "wall" or limit you will hit. Even logistics doesn't prevent you from making more but it makes it cost more and that mechanic is generally to keep you from making 50 small factories everywhere as opposed to a small number of large ones.
All the mechanics are self balancing. You can try to sell down the metal across the entire planet but this is a trading game, If metal is dirt cheap everyone on the planet, other players will start buying it to sell elsewhere or to supply the tier 2 and factories with it. Metal is selling for 300-400 outside of sol and will only rise unless sold down. The demand mechanic isn't regulated outside of Sol.
You should try to make another resource also, and sell that but then make a component factory and supply it with your cheap resources, its even more profitable=)
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Phemanaught Posts: 5
8/24/2016
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This is not a healthy beta environment, it is just a echo chamber,
the point of beta is to get feed back from players.
Good luck with your game but I will no longer take part.
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Doctor Dread Administrator Posts: 1478
8/24/2016
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Phemanaught wrote:
This is not a healthy beta environment, it is just a echo chamber,
the point of beta is to get feed back from players.
Good luck with your game but I will no longer take part.
You were losing money, we explained why, you started getting upset because it's not "realistic" we explained the mechanic and why it works and gave you options to expand out besides simply upgrading your structures in one spot which you've taken to its limit. You're complaining about demand but it works just like you say. The more you sell the lower demand goes, the lower demand goes the more population increases and the more population makes the "volume" go up which makes you have to sell more and more if you want the price to keep from rising. The math may not be tuned perfectly but the it is a self balancing system. All this is explained in the Guide page on the website also.
The only thing you're giving feedback on is the way you want resources work. You want it to be where everyone can mine one resources infinitely as opposed to having numerous spots and you don't' want any resistance regardless of how many people mine it. My response is a system like that would make for a simple game where there is absolutely no reason to build anywhere but the spot you started in. We're not copying other game mechanics that are like that, we're making a different one that involves the other players around you.
The system that's in place now makes the other players in the location you're in and what they are doing something to be concerned with which is a tenant of the game. It also makes you start out "simple" but quickly have to expand your game in new ways as you step up production going from your one spot your mining to mining from other locations to going off planet and/or starting to get into the Component factories and End products. All of that comes naturally without any guided quests. Unlike other games where fighting is just something cool to do, here there is a legitimate reason to have strife and attack someone else and that reason is grounded in the limited resources. Overcrowding is what makes the resources "limited" without a hard cap on production or limiting how many players can mine the resources.
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Salbazier Posts: 3
8/24/2016
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Phemanaught wrote:
This is not a healthy beta environment, it is just a echo chamber,
the point of beta is to get feed back from players.
Good luck with your game but I will no longer take part.
This is not feedback, it is just whining.
A player's input is not automatically always a good idea and and neither they are entitled to have the developer obliged their every demand.
You are also not the only player with the right of opinion. Me and Vulpex disssent over your 'suggestion' is also feedback from players.
edited by Salbazier on 8/24/2016
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+1
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Vulpex Posts: 390
8/25/2016
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To be fair - I also think (and have stated elsewhere) that the cap of 1000 to trigger the Ocrowd is a bit rough - I would not mind if it was raised a bit especially to allow new players to get a hang of the system without having to tangle with it initially - I also think that it should be possible to downgrade (as well as upgrade) production facilities precisely because of the Ocrowd effect that can significantly alter your production in a single location.
However as Salbazier has pointed out - we both agree that the Ocrowd system as such is necessary and is an important part of what makes this game interesting, challenging and diffferent.
Conflict for a reason is important. A reason for conflict is inspiring.
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Rujholla Posts: 35
8/26/2016
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Phemanaught wrote:
This is not a healthy beta environment, it is just a echo chamber,
the point of beta is to get feed back from players.
Good luck with your game but I will no longer take part.
Just curious is there a point where if a player is no longer playing, his stuff will decay away? Or will Raytheon's mines be there driving the metal demand down for the rest of the beta test round? Also, anyone know how many turns games are expected to last -- will things reset every 10K, 100k turns with a declared winner or is it more open ended?
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Doctor Dread Administrator Posts: 1478
8/26/2016
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It doesn't do it now but eventually it will liquidate your Corp after so many days of not logging in. Probably a couple weeks? That will remove all the demand busting structures that keep on going. And then remove it entirely after a month or so.
The game has no end, it is designed to go on forever. The "turns" can almost be thought of as a "Star Date" and it might be altered to look like one in the future. Big events and the way the galaxy expands by opening up new systems you can relocate to is what gives you the opportunity to "start again" in a new place with fresh set of people while keeping most of your net worth
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Vulpex Posts: 390
8/26/2016
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Suggestion - after two weeks of inactivity set all structures to halt production.
That way in case something happens people can return - I would still delete everything but give a bit more time. Just from my own experience on these things...
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Doctor Dread Administrator Posts: 1478
8/26/2016
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Halting all production is only half the problem. The transports are still running around and "free" products are still piling up. An abandoned corporation with hundreds of records in the database is also a burden on the system. Liquidating the corp reduces everything to one line in the database for your corp and a lot of credits. It's the same liquidation you can do form the Corp Page. I can actually keep it around that way for a long time because you're not longer impacting the system or the game but you can return and star fresh if you wanted, possibly in a new system.
The guy who got upset about resources was mining a lot of metal on Mars for example. He could potentially overcrowd the heck out of Mars_5, I have to remove it sooner not later. Even two weeks sounds like a lot of time on a free account. A paid one might stay around as long as they are paying
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