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Major change to Demand/Pop in Sol Messages in this topic - RSS

Doctor Dread
Doctor Dread
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1/4/2017
Doctor Dread
Doctor Dread
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We just put in a major change to the way demand and population work. We didn't like the way were making different demand and population growth rules for inside and outside of the Sol System. We really wanted to find a way to make the systems identical while still preserving Sol system as "Stable". The problem we found through the Open Beta is that once a city is formed outside of Sol the players cant supply everything to it and so most of the demand went out of control which caused the population crash and the city to be destroyed. We later implemented a stop on the higher tier product demands until a cities population hit 2,3,5 million respectively. But we didn't like that either. So we have a new mechanic tweak we're implementing across all cities including Sol:

The demand rise for the higher tier products (Components, Services, End Products) Still kicks in at 2,3,5 million population, but if the population in the city goes back below those thresholds, the demand for those higher tier products starts to go DOWN, if they are higher than 200, at the natural rate until they get to 200 and stay there. They will rise normally to 200 if sold down. Events can still move them around but they will come down to 200 if the population isn't high enough to sustain that product tier.

The cities in Sol are NO LONGER RESTRICTED when it comes to demand and population. They operate exactly the same as the outer cities. That means the demand on any product can hit 1000% and population WILL move up and down depending on the demand of products. All cities in Sol no longer have a default population that the system pushes towards. The playing field is now leveled.


Left alone, a small city will have all the raw material demand rise to 1000 while the rest will hover around 200 which will make the population go down. Sol cities still cannot be destroyed and will bottom out at 90k population,.

We have cut the population of all the sol cities in half also.
Also, there were some fixes to combat where you couldn't attack structures with "Attack Everyone" because of guild affiliation.

There is also a new event called "War Reparations" which puts aggressive player on trial to be voted on by all the defender corporations that were attacked. The "Winner" of the vote get takes for 5% of their net worth to be distributed among the victims. The planet of Pluto has one of these vents going right now.

We plan to do more events in coming days. We also are considering allowing election in Sol system for paid accounts.
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ChaChaCharms
ChaChaCharms
Posts: 163


1/5/2017
ChaChaCharms
ChaChaCharms
Posts: 163
When we attack other players is there a way that instead of resources raided, we can take a percentage of their NW that way the aggressor can still make up for some of the losses should he lose the vote? Also how does this make it fair if a guild attacks a player for actions taken against them, it seems that regardless the attacking player will lose?

--
Never trust anything that can think for itself if you can’t see where it keeps its brain..
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Doctor Dread
Doctor Dread
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1/5/2017
Doctor Dread
Doctor Dread
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Posts: 1397
The voting power is based on how much damage you have TAKEN. So if you received a TON of damage from someone (anyone actually), like he took out half your stuff and you counter attacked and did 20% of that, like you took out a couple of structures, when a vote comes you will have far greater vote power. The people who got wrecked the most have the voting power to choose who the guilty party is, or the most guilty.

And in the end its a vote because the system doesn't know who is really "at fault" or what is really going on. On a larger scale event like planet or system wide, there might be a dozen people voting. You can always threaten them before they vote, which is ironic and hilarious at the same time =)
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ChaChaCharms
ChaChaCharms
Posts: 163


1/5/2017
ChaChaCharms
ChaChaCharms
Posts: 163
Ha, okay so basically, in Pluto's case, Gaia can either cast a vote and receive 5% of the aggressor's networth; and risk being completely obliterated by the guild, or they can abstain from the vote since he had it coming.. smile

--
Never trust anything that can think for itself if you can’t see where it keeps its brain..
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Doctor Dread
Doctor Dread
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1/5/2017
Doctor Dread
Doctor Dread
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Posts: 1397
ChaChaCharms wrote:
Ha, okay so basically, in Pluto's case, Gaia can either cast a vote and receive 5% of the aggressor's networth; and risk being completely obliterated by the guild, or they can abstain from the vote since he had it coming.. smile



Don't ya love it? I love this game =)

Having the low powered players vote against high powered players is major facet of the system and is kind of a self-balancing mechanic. It's very much like the Twilight Imperium board game where "I don't care how many War Suns and fighters you're about to hit me with, there has been a vote by the other players to end all hostilities in this area and you can't attack this turn". Next turn however there will be a review of who voted for what.

I want to make events where players on a planet can vote against another player to prevent them from doing any industry on a planet, or maybe no buy/sell trading, specific products or categories, temporarily or "voted on again" every week like a law that needs to get vetoed.. Perhaps that's a good candidate for guild events. Through a vote of some sort, only players in a specific guild are allowed to buy/sell to a specific city or planet. The rest will have their orders canceled with an appropriate message.

Can do the same thing with military. Certain units, say large ships, aren't allowed in Mars Space as a law that gets voted on again every week. Maybe by the Planet ruler.

Had this idea to have guilds have an "influence" stat of some kind based on their industry, military or maybe how many "titles" their members hold and at what level. This influence can be spent to initiate or influence votes like this that come up.
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ChaChaCharms
ChaChaCharms
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1/6/2017
ChaChaCharms
ChaChaCharms
Posts: 163
I think that those ideas are fantastic and hope we can get them implemented somehow!

--
Never trust anything that can think for itself if you can’t see where it keeps its brain..
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Zip555
Zip555
Posts: 66


1/8/2017
Zip555
Zip555
Posts: 66
War Reparations - is this triggered by all attacks on another player? If I make 5 attacks against 5 players on a planet, do I just pay one 5%? Is it a licence to fight, I can attack anything on a planet for a week, for a single 5% payment.
If my guild supports an attack, does everyone who supplied troops pay 5%
If I am attacked, I get 5% from the attacker. If my guild then attacks the original attacker, will they then have to pay 5%
edited by Zip555 on 1/8/2017
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Doctor Dread
Doctor Dread
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1/8/2017
Doctor Dread
Doctor Dread
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Posts: 1397
Zip555 wrote:
War Reparations - is this triggered by all attacks on another player? If I make 5 attacks against 5 players on a planet, do I just pay one 5%? Is it a licence to fight, I can attack anything on a planet for a week, for a single 5% payment.
If my guild supports an attack, does everyone who supplied troops pay 5%
If I am attacked, I get 5% from the attacker. If my guild then attacks the original attacker, will they then have to pay 5%
edited by Zip555 on 1/8/2017


It looks at ALL attackers who hit another non NPC Corporation in all battles in the "scope" (city planet or system) happening in the last 1000 turns. Whether you hit once for 5 hps or took out three players in 40 attacks, whether you were in a guild or not. If your Corp was on an attacking Corp side of any battle that did any damage to another non-NPC Corp You are on trial.

The defenders are the same way in reverse. ALL defenders in ANY battle where they got hit by another non-NPC corporation in the scope and within 1000 turns is listed as a "victim" voter.

The vote declares only ONE corporation from the ones on trial as "Guilty" That one corporation loses 5% of their net worth. That amount is evenly distributed amongst all the victim-voters. you can potentially have people receiving money from a corp that didn't attack any but one of them. You can also very easily be on both sides of the event, as an attacker and a defender. Guilty corporation doesn't receive any reparation money from what he just handed out.

It is possible to get hit with the event multiple times, especially in different scopes. You attacked one city, but the city planet and system scope events cover the same place and you get voted guilty 3 times. There is some normalizing done so the same events don't happen repeatedly. But you can get hit for 5% 3 times in 3 days over the same fighting

Any "fairness" of the system is dictated by the voting (i.e. same guy getting voted an aggressor 3 times in 3 days) . If they do that to you, hit em again =)
edited by DrDread on 1/8/2017
edited by DrDread on 1/8/2017
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Zip555
Zip555
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1/8/2017
Zip555
Zip555
Posts: 66
I am sure the defenders will almost always choose to receive 5% of the richest agressor.

So not 5%, if I attack, I risk a fine of 10% of my net worth, or 15% if I attack in a city. If I retalliate against an agressor then I may have to pay 15%NW, instead of him, so do not shoot back. Seems you do not want any fighting.

"The money is evenly distributed amongst all victims" So if there is a fight anywhere in Sol, I need to make my alt corps shoot each other within 1000 turns, as they will all get the same compenstion as the real victim, is that right? I had planned on a main and 2 alts, maybe I will want more.
edited by Zip555 on 1/8/2017
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Zip555
Zip555
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1/8/2017
Zip555
Zip555
Posts: 66
"same guy getting voted an aggressor 3 times in 3 days) . If they do that to you, hit em again" and then quit the game.

If I have a 15% fine, then another 15% fine 3 days later, and I loose something in the fighting, I would probably not want to continue.
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Doctor Dread
Doctor Dread
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1/8/2017
Doctor Dread
Doctor Dread
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Posts: 1397
Zip555 wrote:
"same guy getting voted an aggressor 3 times in 3 days) . If they do that to you, hit em again" and then quit the game.

If I have a 15% fine, then another 15% fine 3 days later, and I loose something in the fighting, I would probably not want to continue.


We could make the event not pull in Aggressors that have already been hit that week, as in been voted guilty. They wouldn't even be a choice. Or maybe even since the last time they had to pay a reparation. So if you got voted guilty and paid today, you wouldn't be included in any other reparations votes for at least 1000 turns from now.

That kind of makes it so you can go ape wild after you get hit with reparations though.

Perhaps something a little more complicated like, once you got hit with a payment, When another vote comes up it wont look at damage done by your corp since the last time you had to pay reparations. Could maybe shorter the timeframe to 500 turns. We'll see how it goes
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Doctor Dread
Doctor Dread
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1/8/2017
Doctor Dread
Doctor Dread
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Posts: 1397
Zip555 wrote:
I am sure the defenders will almost always choose to receive 5% of the richest agressor.

So not 5%, if I attack, I risk a fine of 10% of my net worth, or 15% if I attack in a city. If I retaliate against an aggressor then I may have to pay 15%NW, instead of him, so do not shoot back. Seems you do not want any fighting.

"The money is evenly distributed amongst all victims" So if there is a fight anywhere in Sol, I need to make my alt corps shoot each other within 1000 turns, as they will all get the same compenstion as the real victim, is that right? I had planned on a main and 2 alts, maybe I will want more.
edited by Zip555 on 1/8/2017

Having multiple accounts is legal, abusing them like that is not =) I don't think the explicit line exists in the terms about multi accounts but it will fall under a general "Anything you do that we deem exploitive is subject to suspension or ban". We can reference multi accounts explicitly to give examples, like that one, which are not legal.

But first.... You would annihilate a guy, then JUST IN CASE a War Reparation events randomly shows up, you would then attack with that same account, your 5 other accounts, or just have units from your 5 other accounts there and attack "everyone" just to get them onto the potential victims list and reduce the actual victims payout to 20% of normal IF a War Reparations event happened? You realize that attacking costs money and so does repairs? It would be a pretty weak "grief" even if it panned out that way and once anyone smells that you did something like that, you would lose all the accounts

The alternative is to spread the funds based on how much damage you have taken. That would be make it almost self defeating to damage yourself enough to reap your own rewards. Have the reward payout be, say, half of what we took also makes that a less viable exploit
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Zip555
Zip555
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1/10/2017
Zip555
Zip555
Posts: 66
"JUST IN CASE a War Reparation events randomly shows up" so only a few attacks result in Reparations? Can you give me an idea of how likely it is, completly random or are big attacks more likely to give it?

If a $20bill corp attacks someone and the event fires, then he has a fine of $1bil on his planet, another 1 bil in the system. Eveyone else in sol will immediatly shoot each other other costing them less than 1mil each. In the vote everyone will vote for the rich corp, and get a share of that 2bil

"spread the funds based on how much damage you have taken" only makes a little difference. If the 20Bil corp inflicts 10mil damage on someone and the event occurs, then 49 other corps shoot each other for 10mil damage each. Each corp receives 40mil from the event (50th of 2bil) while loosing 10 mil
If only 4 corps join in then they make a really big profit, but I expect lots of corps will join in, as long as they are smaller than the original shooter

edited by Zip555 on 1/10/2017
edited by Zip555 on 1/10/2017
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Doctor Dread
Doctor Dread
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1/10/2017
Doctor Dread
Doctor Dread
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You can't lump onto the event AFTER it drops. When the event shows up, it already generated the list of defendants and victims and total damage spread. You can bring a handful of small ships from your other corps to "get attacked" in every big fight you do to attempt to get onto the victims list IF a War Rep event shows up but if I make the payout spread based on how much damage you took then even though you got onto the victims list, your payout is going to be a few credits. The guy who lost half is game in the attack is going to take 99% of the payout if there is one.

The events right now are chosen randomly from the ones available, they aren't even "weighted" yet. They all have equal chance at the moment. The system makes a second event happening in the same city planet or system very rare until some time has passed and the same event cant hit the same scope and place while one is running, not the same event anyway, As we add more, any particular one like War Rep will become rarer and rarer. The chance of you getting hit by one should be slim, Granted, a System wide scope War Reparations event is going to affect you but if the entire galaxy votes you as the #1 aggressor, hey that's the intended mechanic =)
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