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How a Capture mechanic should work Messages in this topic - RSS

Doctor Dread
Doctor Dread
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Posts: 1458


8/30/2018
Doctor Dread
Doctor Dread
Administrator
Posts: 1458
There is currently no way to capture other assets in the game except product through the Raid option in combat. I have some ideas on how it can be implemented in different ways.

The first idea is quite simple to implement. If you attack someone at a location and wipe them out, or a better way to say it is, if a corp is wiped out militarily at a location then any product, items and MAYBE even factories switch ownership to the highest military power of the attacking players at that location.

Taking factories seems a little much, but taking the product or items at locations sounds fine. Also, the highest military Power could be filtered down to ONLY INFANTRY or boots on the ground type of units (Infantry, Commando, Mechanized, but not Battle suits, tanks, artillery, aircraft).

There is also different idea when it comes to "Capturing" as opposed to "Destroying" big military assets. like star bases, Orbitals or megastructures and even normal factories. It would involve all units having a separate Capture hit point bar. "Capture" would be another option of attacking alongside Raid. When capturing, the Infantry type units would cause "Capture Damage" and only a fraction of normal damage. If the Capture HPs goes to zero then the asset is captured by the highest military power (Infantry Units) of the attacking corps. The Bar recovers similar to Hit points but if something was just captured, it will be very easy to capture again by someone else right after combat. You would bring a mostly ground force in if you intend to capture something as all other units would do full real damage.

"Capturing" a Corp HQ would allow for perhaps a percentage of credits or some other reward. Units under attack cannot be salvaged. In fact everything at a location can be prevented from salvaging anything if there is combat going on.

I'm still not sure if I would allow capturing of Factories, that seems devastating, it's worse then losing it. for the salvage money
edited by DrDread on 8/30/2018
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Wreith42
Wreith42
Posts: 58


8/30/2018
Wreith42
Wreith42
Posts: 58
I have precisely 0 desire for this mechanic to be implemented at all. I'd much rather have a focus on the political aspects of the game.

That said:
1. I don't know why you would exclude Battle suits from the military power calculation
2. If you want to allow capturing of factories, give them a self-destruct equivalent of the retreat command for ships. If The capture bar reaches a certain percentage, the facility is salvaged rather than captured.
That would leave the possibility of capture depending on how fast it's happening just like retreat leaves the possibility of things being destroyed if there is enough attack power to surpass the percentage chosen.
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Harkon
Harkon
Posts: 4


8/31/2018
Harkon
Harkon
Posts: 4
I don't like capture idea either, one thing it is to destroy your army and structures or raid products those things you can recover and start over but to steal your corps credits and items that thing you cannot recover easily cus it can take months to acquire those things if not years, as well if your defenses got whipped out and your corp HQ is being constantly raided you will lose all your credits, it's a nice way to make people quit these game after they lose what they have acquired for months. But then again idk where these game is heading more toward economical playstyle or toward the combat playstyle.
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jimbobdaz
jimbobdaz
Posts: 83


8/31/2018
jimbobdaz
jimbobdaz
Posts: 83
Do you plan to make the capture possible against npc corps or just pvp dread?
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Exeler
Exeler
Posts: 3


9/2/2018
Exeler
Exeler
Posts: 3
I think capturing credits from another corps bank would open up a lot of griefing, and capturing factories seems to be on the risky side (unless you made it particularly difficult to do so successfully). Factories like any other asset can be replaced after all. I think capturing megastructures would be an interesting mechanic. If you are going to thrown down a megastructure, you'd best invest in a way to defend it. Capturing an arcology or hypernet tower would essentially just take the burden of upkeep off of the loser, but for things like spaceports/warpgates politics could get very interesting.
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Vulpex
Vulpex
Posts: 390


9/3/2018
Vulpex
Vulpex
Posts: 390
A few thoughts.

1) While I agree that boots on the ground style of units should be especially valuable when capturing assets I am not sure that I agree that they should be the only consideration. Right now a single lvl 1 infantry could come in, waltz right past my 20 lvl 10 gunsuits, my tanks, my space fleet, my pretty mobile fortress, and other static defences and rob me blind under that system. Seems a bit skewed no?

2) I am ambivalent about the stealing of factories though I find that it would be too disruptive in some ways I love the idea of just stealing everyone's artifact sites... oh wait did I just say that? In practice though it is far more disruptive than simply destroying the sites. There may be a case to be able to use a flag - similar to the flag used to decide if a unit or group of units can be escorted to highlight if a facility would surrender or fight to the death. I do believe though that if factories can be stolen like this there needs to be a mechanism implemented that allows them to be simply sold as well - which opens the road to having factories being held for ransom or simply given back as part of a peace accord.

With regards to the way in which capturing could work I suggest the following:

Five types of units to consider:

1) Boots on the ground - units based on infantry, commandos and mech infantry
2) Ground support - Tanks, artillery and Mechs
3) Airforce - bombers, fighters and variteks
4) Space fleet - all ships
5) Static defenses - fortresses, shields, missile silos, rail guns, ion guns, mobile fortresses and maybe shipyards and military bases.

So how I would see this:

Capture is possible when you have more capture power than the defender, where capture power is based on unit power with the following modifiers:

Boots on the ground - big bonus 5x or maybe even 10x
Ground support - 1x
Airforce - 0.5 x (only counts for half)
Space fleet - 0 x (not considered at all)
Static defenses - 2x

Not entirely sure about the static defenses - I do find it hard to carry away truckloads of loot while the mobile fortress is pounding your raiders though. I would also love for static defenses to reduce the incoming damage to infantry type of units to make them more viable in this kind of conflict.

Oh and maybe we need a stronger kind of infantry units. Like Space Marines .... yeah... space marines..... Gulyaev Chapter...


edited by Vulpex on 9/3/2018
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Doctor Dread
Doctor Dread
Administrator
Posts: 1458


9/5/2018
Doctor Dread
Doctor Dread
Administrator
Posts: 1458
So far it sounds like there isn't much interest in capture mechanic for any corp assets. Shifting ownership of a starbase via capture is probably 2x as griefy as destroying it. I'llhold off on that kind of capture mechanic.

BUT, I do plan to put in "Strategic Locations" in the game similar to Stelaris. Permanent non destroy-able structures that offer a corp wide bonus of some sort. Those I will make using a capture mechanic similar to what we're discusing here.

What about the capture of products AND ITEMS if you wipe out the owning corporation? I havn't heard comment on that It would mean you could attack a big player at his corp where hes sitting on 83 artifact items and if you can overpower his military there then all ownership of those items and product change to the highest military power attacker. I would have to make cargo transfers not allowed if under attack and neither is salvage.
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jimbobdaz
jimbobdaz
Posts: 83


9/5/2018
jimbobdaz
jimbobdaz
Posts: 83
I am completely in favour of a capture corp assets option, capturing products and items sounds even better... not that i want to do it but it will make us think twice about leaving all those lovley artifacts just lying around
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Wreith42
Wreith42
Posts: 58


9/5/2018
Wreith42
Wreith42
Posts: 58
I would want fixed defenses improved if you put Items at risk.
They're currently useless at any affordable level against any half-way-decent fleet
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Doctor Dread
Doctor Dread
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Posts: 1458


9/5/2018
Doctor Dread
Doctor Dread
Administrator
Posts: 1458
Wreith42 wrote:
I would want fixed defenses improved if you put Items at risk.
They're currently useless at any affordable level against any half-way-decent fleet



I think all the units scaled up some, esp the ships and pushed the defenses down. I might do some kind of doubling of defenses and cut everyone's defense unit levels in half to compensate
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LunaMoth
LunaMoth
Posts: 47


9/7/2018
LunaMoth
LunaMoth
Posts: 47
I don't remember ground units being scaled up. It seems that any defense you make can be easily countered with an equivalent ground force. I think the only benefit of defensive structures is that they are dirt cheap.
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Doctor Dread
Doctor Dread
Administrator
Posts: 1458


9/10/2018
Doctor Dread
Doctor Dread
Administrator
Posts: 1458
LunaMoth wrote:
I don't remember ground units being scaled up. It seems that any defense you make can be easily countered with an equivalent ground force. I think the only benefit of defensive structures is that they are dirt cheap.



The idea of defenses is that they are far cheaper then their equivalent ground force. At a ratio of like 5 to 1, or that's what it should be. But there is another cost associated with units which is the Logistics cost. Defenses cost too much in Logistics to be practical. If I scale them up, simply double all their stats then what that does is effectively HALF their logistics cost.
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